Website Section on "The Boats of Swallows and Amazons"

We've just added an updated section to the website covering the various boats that appear in the Swallows and Amazons novels. I wouldn't be too surprised if there is the occasional factual omission or error in there, let alone the odd typo: if anyone does come across any errors, please don't hesitate to say so we can correct them. If you know of some useful additional material about any of the boats, please do offer it, so that we can update and improve this section of the site further.

One thing that would be great would be to have photos of more of these boats. I haven't had time to add any as yet. If you have any photos you think would illustrate the various vessels, and you know there are no copyright reasons why the TARS website can't use them (and, if they are your own pics that you are happy for the site to use them!) then please feel free to offer them.

You can find the section in the part of the website dedicated to the Swallows and Amazons books: www.arthur-ransome.org/ar/swallows-and-amazons  Click on "boats".

Oh, and another thing: I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the S&A series there are references to the Hispaniola, the Revenge and the Rosemary of Harwich. All three are listed by Dave Sewart in his appendix to Illustrating Arthur Ransome. However, I can't recall where the references are, nor have I been able to track them down. Can anyone help??

Hi Gareth

If I click on the link you give, I cannot find a link "boats". Where do I look please ?

On the general subject of the S&A boats, there is the set of pages written by Stuart Weir at

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ransome/wier/sanda.html

Cheers,  John G.

Previously Geraint Lewis wrote:

You can find the section in the part of the website dedicated to the Swallows and Amazons books: www.arthur-ransome.org/ar/swallows-and-amazons. Click on "boats".

 

 

Hi John

Sorry about that. What seems to have happened is that the site had two page names with very similar tags and the link in my orignal post was inadvertantly directing to the wrong one. I've fixed it now in my original post (but not in your first reply immediately above). If it doesn't work, try here to get to the same place. 

Thanks for the reminder about Stuart's pages. We actually had a link to this already on the TARS site and I've retained it as a link from the expanded boats section. I'd agree it is an excellent article, although of course it is mainly concerned with dinghy design, so doesn't cover some of the other vessels in the S&A series, such as yachts, wherries, baltic trading schooners, etc.  

Previously John Giddy wrote:

Hi Gareth

If I click on the link you give, I cannot find a link "boats". Where do I look please ?

On the general subject of the S&A boats, there is the set of pages written by Stuart Weir at

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ransome/wier/sanda.html

Cheers,  John G.

 

The reference to the Revenge comes from WDM Chapter XVIII. When the Goblin was approaching the Dutch coast and was about to be surrounded by fishing boats Titty says "We'd be like the Revenge in the middle of the Spanish Fleet"

Not sure about Hispaniola possibly PD and Rosemary of Harwich is probably an East Anglian novel. Others may well know more.

Previously Geraint Lewis wrote:

Oh, and another thing: I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the S&A series there are references to the Hispaniola, the Revenge and the Rosemary of Harwich. All three are listed by Dave Sewart in his appendix to Illustrating Arthur Ransome. However, I can't recall where the references are, nor have I been able to track them down. Can anyone help?? 

Many thanks, Owen! I'd forgotten about the incident in WD, and was thinking it more likely something that Titty might have said in SA.

I've added a short section in the Literary References to Historic Ships page.

Yes, my guess re Hispaniola would be PD or (again) SA, but I can't find it. "Rosemary of Harwich" would logically appear in one of the East Coast novels, but I suppose may be in PD. Hopefully someone will know - if not, it'll be a good excuse to re-read the books properly...

Previously Owen Roberts wrote:

The reference to the Revenge comes from WDM Chapter XVIII. When the Goblin was approaching the Dutch coast and was about to be surrounded by fishing boats Titty says "We'd be like the Revenge in the middle of the Spanish Fleet"

Not sure about Hispaniola possibly PD and Rosemary of Harwich is probably an East Anglian novel. Others may well know more.

The 'Boats' section looks good. But donning my anorak, I note that in 'East Coast Vessels', the Emily is not included (fishing boat operating out of Felixstowe).

Peter

Many thanks.

The Emily is mentioned, but very briefly: I was working on the basis that she was a historic vessel (like Coronilla) and therefore put them on the page Literary References to Historic Vessels, rather than in the section for East Coast vessels.

You may be right, however, and it would be more logical to have them in the East Coast section, as they were physically part of the WDMTGTS story: unlike other "literary references" such as Revenge.

It does get confusing at times. For instance, with the Fram, we clearly have Nansen's historic vessel. But within WH, the Houseboat becomes the Fram - they aren't merely making references to Nansen's ship but to their own. Maybe a list of the vessels in the Lake Books needs to list the Houseboat twice to reflect these different personalities?

Previously Peter Hyland wrote:

The 'Boats' section looks good. But donning my anorak, I note that in 'East Coast Vessels', the Emily is not included (fishing boat operating out of Felixstowe).

Previously Geraint Lewis wrote:

Many thanks, Owen! I'd forgotten about the incident in WD, and was thinking it more likely something that Titty might have said in SA.

I've added a short section in the Literary References to Historic Ships page.

Yes, my guess re Hispaniola would be PD or (again) SA, but I can't find it. "Rosemary of Harwich" would logically appear in one of the East Coast novels, but I suppose may be in PD. Hopefully someone will know - if not, it'll be a good excuse to re-read the books properly...

Previously Owen Roberts wrote:

The reference to the Revenge comes from WDM Chapter XVIII. When the Goblin was approaching the Dutch coast and was about to be surrounded by fishing boats Titty says "We'd be like the Revenge in the middle of the Spanish Fleet"

Not sure about Hispaniola possibly PD and Rosemary of Harwich is probably an East Anglian novel. Others may well know more.

 

Rosemary of Harwich

Rosemary of Harwich sounds typically like a vessel from PD or WD, or perhaps one of the boats cut loose in BS.  In fact, she sounds a bit too typical.  I can't find her, and I've looked in CITN as well.  There's something fishy here. I don't think she exists. It would be just like Dave Sewart to have sneaked a 'fake' vessel into his Appendix as a joke and see if anyone noticed. (If Rosemary is found, then I'll apologise to his shade, but I don't she will be!)

Previously Peter Hyland wrote:

Rosemary of Harwich

Rosemary of Harwich sounds typically like a vessel from PD or WD, or perhaps one of the boats cut loose in BS.  In fact, she sounds a bit too typical.  I can't find her, and I've looked in CITN as well.  There's something fishy here. I don't think she exists. It would be just like Dave Sewart to have sneaked a 'fake' vessel into his Appendix as a joke and see if anyone noticed. (If Rosemary is found, then I'll apologise to his shade, but I don't she will be!)

I must admit I was beginning to wonder myself, although I hadn't reached the point of suspecting Dave of pulling our legs. But I suppose it is always possible he made a mistake. 

Still, if she is, then she's served a useful purpose this morning. One of the other vessels listed by Dave was The Watte. This rang no bells with me at all, and sounded so unlike any vessel names created by AR that I eventually decided it was a misprint in his list. However, whilst looking for the Rosemary, I happened across AR's reference to The Watte, in the story of the voyage home from Crab Island.

Previously Geraint Lewis wrote:

I must admit I was beginning to wonder myself, although I hadn't reached the point of suspecting Dave of pulling our legs. But I suppose it is always possible he made a mistake. 

I had hoped that Gareth would have time to reply to this. I asked Ed Kiser to carry out a search on his database of the AR books.

He kindly replied as follows

I should have said Geraint not Gareth in my last post.

Hi Owen

Belated apologies for not replying sooner: I'm afraid "native life" has been getting in the way over the last week or so.

Many thanks to you for looking into this, and to Ed for finding the references. Obviously I'll have to apologise for thinking that Dave Sewart might have made a mistake! (I'm not sure what Peter H will have to do for thinking that "Rosemary" was a fictitious leg-pull...)

I've added a little bit about Rosemary to the page on Other East Coast Vessels, and about Hispaniola to the page on Literary References. Following Peter's earlier comment about Emily, I've shifted the information about both her and Coronilla to the page on East Coast Vessels. I hope that all makes logical sense.

Thanks again to veryone for their help with that.

Previously Owen Roberts wrote:

I had hoped that Geraint would have time to reply to this. I asked Ed Kiser to carry out a search on his database of the AR books.

He kindly replied as follows

'Rosemary' - the laugh is on me, for doubting Dave Sewart. I should have known. What I had forgotten was that in the middle of the high drama in WD, there is a brief interlude at Pin Mill - ch. XIV - and I didn't search this when hunting for 'Rosemary'. To make things more difficult, 'ROSEMARY OF HARWICH' is not in itals in the text, but rather small caps, to show how the name appeared on the stern. This chapter is interesting - AR must have thought that a brief respite from the tension of the children's voyage was due, and I think he was right.  An old device, but it always works.

Not in itals, should be not in italics. Sorry to be pernickety.

Previously Peter Hyland wrote:

'Rosemary' - the laugh is on me, for doubting Dave Sewart. I should have known. What I had forgotten was that in the middle of the high drama in WD, there is a brief interlude at Pin Mill - ch. XIV - and I didn't search this when hunting for 'Rosemary'. To make things more difficult, 'ROSEMARY OF HARWICH' is not in itals in the text, but rather small caps, to show how the name appeared on the stern. This chapter is interesting - AR must have thought that a brief respite from the tension of the children's voyage was due, and I think he was right.  An old device, but it always works.

In Lake District Vessels, the lake teams should read "the lake teems".

In the web page for Scarab, it says that Scarab appears in The Picts and the Martyrs. She is also mentioned

in Great Northern?

In the page for Captain Flint's Houseboat, in the Description section, the word "momentoes" should be "mementos".

In Other Lake District vessels, in the section on "Steamers", "thier" should be "their" (line 1).

Hi Sian

Many thanks for noticing this, and for the other typos. I'll correct them when I have a spare moment!

Best wishes

Geraint

Previously Sian Mountbatten wrote:

In Other Lake District vessels, in the section on "Steamers", "thier" should be "their" (line 1).

 

I'm sure you are right, Sian and they probably did mention Scarab in passing. However, I think the lists we've used of the books that the major boats appear in is limited to physical appearances, not mentions. For example, Peggy mentions Swallow in Chapter 2 of Pigeon Post, but Swallow does not actually appear in the story.  

However, as a matter of interest I can't recall for certain where they mention Scarab in Great Northern? Was it in connection to Dick trying to row the folding boat, or something like that?

Previously Sian Mountbatten wrote:

In the web page for Scarab, it says that Scarab appears in The Picts and the Martyrs. She is also mentioned

in Great Northern?

 

ROSEMARY OF HARWICH appears in We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea p.184 in the chapter entitled "At Pin Mill".

Previously Geraint Lewis wrote:

Oh, and another thing: I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the S&A series there are references to the Hispaniola, the Revenge and the Rosemary of Harwich. All three are listed by Dave Sewart in his appendix to Illustrating Arthur Ransome. However, I can't recall where the references are, nor have I been able to track them down. Can anyone help??

 

In Great Northern, chapter II, Feeling Her Way In (p.28): "Dick, as so often before, felt that, in this ship-load of experienced sailors, he and Dorothea were no more than passengers. They knew how to sail their little Scarab, but this was the first time they had been to sea."

Previously Geraint Lewis wrote:

I'm sure you are right, Sian and they probably did mention Scarab in passing. However, I think the lists we've used of the books that the major boats appear in is limited to physical appearances, not mentions. For example, Peggy mentions Swallow in Chapter 2 of Pigeon Post, but Swallow does not actually appear in the story.  

However, as a matter of interest I can't recall for certain where they mention Scarab in Great Northern? Was it in connection to Dick trying to row the folding boat, or something like that?

Previously Sian Mountbatten wrote:

In the web page for Scarab, it says that Scarab appears in The Picts and the Martyrs. She is also mentioned

in Great Northern?